Let's Think Together
Might Should be Right
Published on January 28, 2007 By ThinkAloud In International
I promised to address the question of how can the US support Israel without creating enemies which our current policy is doing. Considering the history of the area and the situation currently on the ground, following is what I believe could be an acceptable solution to both sides. First, just a brief look at the history:

The Middle East and in particular the Egypt-Palestine/Israel-Saudi Arabia triangle has always been and will always remain the focal point of Humans ever since they inherited this planet The people living in that area are aware of the uniqueness of their land and they always traded with each other with no major conflict between them. All the fights in that area were almost always with outsiders trying to control it. Starting from the middle of the Ancient Egyptian era to the Tatar, the Romans, the Greeks, the Crusaders and now the “West”, the fights were always to reclaim the land from the “Invaders”. That doesn’t mean there were no friction between one group or the other every once in a while, but it was no different than the normal frictions between different groups in any other region in the world.

The Real problem started when the Romans persecuted the Jewish population in the area surrounding Jerusalem and forced large numbers of them to flee to other countries including Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco and of course to Europe. The rest of the problem is a well known history.

I mentioned the above in order to establish a fact that most of the people who are concerned about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ignore: The current Palestinians Are the descendents of those who stayed, they are not some alien creatures from another lands.

Israel’s recreation ignored that fact and Israel’s hard liners today still ignore it. At the same time the current Palestinians hard liners also ignore the fact that those who returned to the land in 1948 and since are the descendents of those who fled the persecution 2000 years ago.

It is obvious, to any neutral observer, that it is not fair for anyone to come after 2000 years to claim a land they left behind even if they were forced to leave specially that the ones who stayed had no role in that terrible act of forcing people out of their land. If anyone objects to that logic, and I suppose that there will be many, let them answer this question: would the African Americans and the rest of the African people who were kidnapped and forced into Slavery allover the world have the right to go back to their original land in Africa and claim that they are the rightful owners of that land?

However, and regardless of the rights and wrongs, we now have two groups having the same origin i.e. they are in reality distant cousins each claiming the same land. It is obvious that both are partially correct in that claim and neither one will ever be satisfied with only part of that land. This fact is very clear to anyone who knows both sides. Any talk that we hear from the leaders in the area about “The Two State Solution” is being said because they CAN’T, politically, say what they really want. Only what we call the fanatics on both sides admit that. The sad fact is that those fanatics are the honest ones. Their way of achieving what they want may be vicious and wrong, but they are honest in what they want. The politicians are not honest, on both sides.

So, what is the solution then and how the USA can support Israel and still be fair to all sides? Sometimes we don’t see the forest from the trees. This time we only have to look to our north Boarder to See the solution. It is the Canadian Model.

The “One State Solution”

One state with two, may be three provinces each with their own language and traditions but all citizens are free to live in either one. The provinces are “Israel”, “The West Bank” and “Gaza” of one country called “Palestine” shared by the Cousins who were raised in different environments but now came back to their home land. The details are not an impossible task. It could be worked out. Over time they will get to trust each other and hopefully look at this period of their common history as just another struggle they had to go through together.

The USA could be instrumental in making this solution a reality by convincing each side to give up a little in order to gain a lot. The USA could also offer Compensation to both sides for whatever reasonable claims they have and help in providing guarantees for both sides to be treated fairly by the central government of the new "Palestine".

Of course this is a “draft” of what could really be an acceptable solution to both sides but it needs the USA to act neutrally and have the interests of both sides at heart not just Israel. That is how a Superpower should act.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 19, 2007
So if you're going to talk the talk....at least try to stay current on what you're talking about.


these are half solutions, and that is why i said nothing will work till you solve the problem from the roots. as far as staying current, i just read that Israel restarted one settlement that was supposed to be shut down. how current you like more than that?

the fact that these settlements were there in Gaza in the first place proves my point not negates it. Who built them there? and why? isnt it because the people believe that it is there land? and in a way they are correct. the problem is others also say the same thing. and they are also in a way correct. that is perplexing dilemma that exists.

on Feb 19, 2007
these are half solutions, and that is why i said nothing will work till you solve the problem from the roots. as far as staying current, i just read that Israel restarted one settlement that was supposed to be shut down. how current you like more than that?


No you didn't "this is what you said.

Sure the "Jews" accepted it. But who Really accepted it? their leaders at the time for sure. If the Jewish people in general are satisfied with the UN decision, then how do you explain their unrelenting insistance on and actually building settlements everywhere even though this is illegal and against all UN and USA positions? how do you explain that?


Which I've shown you to be wrong on.


And did you bother to look at the date of the last reference I posted? July 4,2006

Got something newer? Then lets have it.
on Feb 19, 2007
the fact that these settlements were there in Gaza in the first place proves my point not negates it. Who built them there? and why? isn't it because the people believe that it is there land? and in a way they are correct. the problem is others also say the same thing. and they are also in a way correct. that is perplexing dilemma that exists.


And btw....this proves "nothing"! Those settlements were built long before any UN OR US intervention. There is no dilemma. Palestine said this is "our" land! Israel in an effort to bring peace to the region said, Okay, it's yours. We'll leave! But was that good enough for the Palestinians...NO!
on Feb 20, 2007
And btw....this proves "nothing"! Those settlements were built long before any UN OR US intervention


and who built them? and why ? you ignore that completely and concentrate on when they were built?

lets not go into a useless arguement on who started what, we trying to solve the problem. not hold a court trial.

you actually sound like the extremists themselves. only one side is what counts. that will never solve anything. you trying to discount a propsal that is fair to both sides, but without even presenting it to the people concerned you disregard it as not going to work.

well, and what is happening now is working? the Israelis and us will eliminate 350 million Arabs with 1.3 billion muslims behind them? and that will work?Good luck.

Got something newer? Then lets have it.


i just told you. last week it was allover the news. They started building a settlement that was a military post there. how current you want, this second? just talking and arguing is not solving anything and killing will not solve anything either.
on Feb 20, 2007

so what happens between the time the romans left in ~ 700's AD to 1930, doesnt count? don't you see what you just proved? the only problem during 1200 yrs was during the existence of the crusaders there, after that and till 1930's there was no problem either. I will even go a little back further than that to 1897 when Britain started the ball rolling to the creation of Israel.


No, it doesn't matter what happened before 1930. Just as it didn't matter what happened in Germany before the 1930s. The problem we are having cannot be solved by dreaming of a past where it didn't exist.

You seem to be saying that it is the Jews' fault for being attacked because they happened to be there.



yes from that point on voilence started when the "settlements" started. The jews never lived in settlemnets before that. they lived as any other citizen in all the region till the idea of "settlements" started to appear.


What exactly is the idea of "settlements" that you are talking about?

Is Tel Aviv a settlement?



if you take the extremists' propaganda out, there is no support in the Muslim world for this kind of thinking and all Muslims know very well that killing anyone, particularly the "people of the Book" is a grave sin.


I know what the Quran says. (It says, for example, that G-d gave the holy land to the Jews). But it has nothing to do with what most "Muslims" think. I cannot take the extremists' propaganda out because that is what people believe.

The Lebanese did not throw rockets at me because they believed that killing people of the book is a grave sin.

They did it because they were convinced that killing us is a good thing.



Let's not give the extremists the satisfaction by letting their ignorant and vicious thinking cloud our thinking.


Well, then stop doing that. Accept that they mean what they say and do not cloud your thinking.

I have heard what they say and I have seen what they do. Don't tell me that changing my way of thinking would somehow solve the problem.

There are people who believe that the extremists' statements are empty words and that nobody supports them. Some of them stayed to close to the border in the summer.

on Feb 20, 2007
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?channel=60Sunday

(Fourth video on the right.)

There is certainly _some_ racism in the middle east. "Jewish settlements" can only explain so much. They cannot explain why every other ethnic minority has the same fears as the Jews and has been the same target for elimination and requires the same kind of defences against the terrorists.
on Feb 20, 2007
Got something newer? Then lets have it.


i just told you. last week it was allover the news. They started building a settlement that was a military post there. how current you want, this second? just talking and arguing is not solving anything and killing will not solve anything either.


Your right, I finally found it. Now did you notice how long it's been since they've built one? 1992. I guess they got tired of Palestine refusing to even try to make peace.
on Feb 20, 2007
No, it doesn't matter what happened before 1930. Just as it didn't matter what happened in Germany before the 1930s. The problem we are having cannot be solved by dreaming of a past where it didn't exist.


I guess that is the difference between our two point of view. The problem with your view is that it is very short sighted. you even didn take your example (Germany) to its conclusion.

First, you and I can ignore what happened before 1930, the two sides, however, will never do that. They have a loooong vivid memories. you fixing your sight on the extremists (on both sides) but what i am suggesting is this: once you do what i am suggesting, those groups will not have any support. the general population will be satisfied and live as they lived before for those thousands of years that you like to ignore.

Second, your example proves my idea: when hitler disappeared the problem ALMOST (realize that wounds take time to heal) disappeared. The difference is the problem here is not racism it is land, and if you solve it the extremists will likewise disappear .

You seem to be saying that it is the Jews' fault for being attacked because they happened to be there.


I said that? please, did you read what i said? i said the problem is always from outsiders. it is Europe, the USA, the Russians ...and before them France, Britain, Rome, ...etc. not the jews, muslims or christians. These were and are the owners of these lands, lets us get out of there and they will be fine. i honestly believe that.

What exactly is the idea of "settlements" that you are talking about?Is Tel Aviv a settlement?


I think you are so confused to the point that you are going to confuse ME. I was not the one who said the jews settlements. I said they never lived in that kind of isolated areas. These settlements started when the British plan got underway. but now, it is done, and all have to face the reality of the existance of the other. to do that and satisfy both, i suggest what i posted.

Well, then stop doing that. Accept that they mean what they say and do not cloud your thinking.I have heard what they say and I have seen what they do. Don't tell me that changing my way of thinking would somehow solve the problem


again you fixing your sight on "they", the extremists. look beyond them and you see what i am saying. "they" will no longer be there.

There is certainly _some_ racism in the middle east. "Jewish settlements" can only explain so much. They cannot explain why every other ethnic minority has the same fears as the Jews and has been the same target for elimination and requires the same kind of defences against the terrorists.


yes, that is true. you will always have crazies in any place. but once you solve the main problem that the majority are concerned with, those crazies will be like any other gang in any society.

no country is free from that kind of screwed up people.
on Feb 20, 2007
I guess they got tired of Palestine refusing to even try to make peace.


of course, and that how the violence continue, those extremists on both sides take advantage of the unsolved problem. lets look past them and solve the problem and they will be marginalized and have no effect other than that of a gang in any society.
on Feb 20, 2007
of course, and that how the violence continue, those extremists on both sides take advantage of the unsolved problem. lets look past them and solve the problem and they will be marginalized and have no effect other than that of a gang in any society.


You "can't" look past them, because most of them are in positionms of power.
on Feb 20, 2007
You "can't" look past them, because most of them are in positionms of power


yes we can. We are not weak and fairness and good-will always tromp injustice and evil intentions. their power has no root and will crumble as soon as the main-stream populations are satisfied.
on Feb 21, 2007

I guess that is the difference between our two point of view. The problem with your view is that it is very short sighted. you even didn take your example (Germany) to its conclusion.


The problem with your view is that you don't know what you are talking about. The difference between our points of view is that you think that you can simply ignore the problem and solve something else.

I tell you again what the problem is:

Certain racists want to kill Jews (and Kurds and others).

You can call them extremists and make plans that don't include them, but that won't stop them.

Hitler disappeared because he and his extremists were TARGETED, not ignored. Nobody said "let's just deal with the Germans and ignore the extremists". That wouldn't have worked.



First, you and I can ignore what happened before 1930, the two sides, however, will never do that. They have a loooong vivid memories. you fixing your sight on the extremists (on both sides) but what i am suggesting is this: once you do what i am suggesting, those groups will not have any support. the general population will be satisfied and live as they lived before for those thousands of years that you like to ignore.


There are no two sides of extremists. There are no Jewish or Israeli extremists of the same level. Nobody in Israel wants to wipe out "Palestine" or openly advocates genocide. If you want to insist that this is some sort of duality, you again cannot even begin to solve the problem.



Second, your example proves my idea: when hitler disappeared the problem ALMOST (realize that wounds take time to heal) disappeared. The difference is the problem here is not racism it is land, and if you solve it the extremists will likewise disappear .


My example proves the idea that fighting the extremists works. YOUR idea was that the extremists must be ignored. That was very much NOT done in World War II. Thank G-d.



I said that? please, did you read what i said? i said the problem is always from outsiders. it is Europe, the USA, the Russians ...and before them France, Britain, Rome, ...etc. not the jews, muslims or christians. These were and are the owners of these lands, lets us get out of there and they will be fine. i honestly believe that.


It is ACTUALLY self-proclaimed Muslims who do the killing. France, Britain, Rome have nothing to do with it. You cannot stop the killers by getting out. Saddam happily gased Kurds and it had nothing to do with America or France or Britain or any colonial power. Jews were attacked all over the world (except in America and Britain), and America and Britain had nothing to do with it.

Stop blaming everyone except the perpetrators.
on Feb 22, 2007
The difference between our points of view is that you think that you can simply ignore the problem and solve something else


NO, i am not ignoring them , the proposal solves the root of the problem. if you believe that fighting the symptoms will cure it then go ahead. unfortunately it will not.

again, it is not up to me or you to decide the validity of this proposel. Sooner or later i hope someone who has the power to offer this to both sides comes along. and you will see, if that ever happens, that it will work.
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