I agree completely. and it doesnt matter who manages these programs. and teh rural areas are certainly deserve more attention.

Yes and no, TA. The biggest argument for some sort of reform in the health care industry is actually much simpler:

Because we're ALREADY paying for it.

Basically, because ER's cannot turn people away, we often find ourselves paying for the vastly inflated emergency room visit...often with an ambulance trip thrown in to boot. How? Through the bad debt writeoffs and increased rates charged to cover default.

What I am leaning towards at this point is a program that would subsidize, but not pay, health insurance premiums for qualifying families. I need a lot more research to crunch the numbers, but with the numbers I have, it actually looks doable without increasing what we're already spending. I don't want to give away my best stuff in a forum response though, so when I get the numbers together, I'll manufacture an article with more detail.

great and you did a great job for yourself and for your family AND for your society and your country. You did all That BECAUSE of these programs that some say they dont want to pay for them and call it redsitribution. Your Eeducation is protecting me and my kids and i have no problem contributing a little to it. Some dont like that at all. that is what gets me upset because it puts more load on me and the others who dont object to paying.

You got my point? if more pay without objection and fighting these programs all the time it will be easier for me and others who are not rich people. which is the majority of the society.

No, we're fighting raising taxes to extend these programs. And we arefighting inefficiency, TA, those are the main things.

One other problem with the federal government is that it adds another layer of bureaucracy, which increases costs, and decreases efficiency, as the number of hands the money goes through to get to the recipient increases greatly.

When I managed group homes, TA, I did some calculating. I realized that every resident of the group home was at least partly responsible for at least 8 people's jobs, at or below the county level. Add in the state and national level, and you see the problem. The lower the level at which the bureaucracy operates, the more efficient it is likely to become.

No One , and I really mean No One (regardless of the nonsense of the Right that Dems like taxes)want to or like to raise taxes. so let's leave that nonsense out of the discussion.

You yourself said that there are areas in the country that are being neglected, shouldnt they get what they need in development so they can catch up with the rest of the country?

efeciency and smart management of tax collection and spending would extend those programs without raisng taxes. the gov currently collects money that can provide much more services if it operates effeciently. We can all help bring that instead of wasting time undermining that same gov by trying to starve it. starving it is not the solution as the Right thinks. Fixing it IS the solution.

Gid, I believe that you have the right ideas but your methods are not consistent with your objectives. In order to deal with the problem you mentioned, fixing not starving is the only way out. This will increase the consumer base and the work-force base which increase business profits for the same people objecting to this same policy.

Exactly. I said that already. lets' eliminate the middle step and we can get better service at lower cost (see comment #51). But you can never get that through the heads of the socialized medicine crowd Including OUR PRESIDENT HIMSELF. He actually said that: "they can always go to the ER".

Amazing ... isnt it? as if the tooth fairy pays for the ER !!!!

and they say they know it all. !!!!!!

I disagree, TA. You don't have to look hard to find bloat and inefficiency in all departments. Instead of looking to eliminate the inefficiency, politicians look for "new sources of revenue" (read: taxes). It's not nonsense, it's fact.

A tax rollback is still a tax.

A vice tax is still a tax.

I don't put the blame on either party exclusive of the other; the only differences between the Dems and the GOP as far as I can see are: 1) the spending priorities of each party, and 2) The Dems, to their credit, want to actually PAY for the programs they propose, rather than put future generations in hock.



You don't fix a thoroughly broken system, TA, you replace it. Education should not be a federal priority, but a state one. Same with welfare and medical care. Making them federal priorities, as I mentioned earlier, adds another middleman, increases the bloat, and increases the likelihood of committing fraud undetected.

I'm not talking about starving the programs, not at all. I'm talking about fiscal responsibility. We expect it of businesses, we expect it of individuals, and we certainly should expect it of our government. I've witnessed firsthand the way government money is wasted when government funds are involved. Let me use an example.

When I managed group homes, the first year, I budgeted out our household allotment. I spread it out over the year, and late in the year, a major expense came up that NEEDED to be paid. The household budget I had scrimped and saved to preserve was gone.

My supervisor instructed me the following year that I was to spend the household budget by January 31, using the rationale that if an emergency came up, they would be forced to find funds elsewhere to cover it. This was the way the other households operated, and this is the way I was to do it.

The "other" money didn't come from the tooth fairy either, TA, it was off budget expense that basically forced the higher ups to shell out money by pretty much holding them for ransom. If it happened in am 8 bed CBRF in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, I have no doubt it happened similarly in other areas.

Shall I tell you about the time we had to receive food stamps and received over $700 per month, more than TWICE what I normally spend on groceries to feed our family? Ever wonder why you see folks buying ribeye with food stamps? That would be why.

Continuing to plod the same failed course isn't going to pull us out of the rut, TA. Not all past government programs were failures, but not all were successes, either. We need to examine the programs, find the ones that were effective, and use them as a model. We need to re-introduce the idea of civic responsibility, and start using human resources instead of just monetary ones.

Some of the specifics I envision: The aforementioned mentoring programs, cooperative day care, using federal financial aid recipients from colleges in summer internships to offset the cost of personnel, bringing back the Victory Gardens in impoverished areas, for environmental and aesthetic reasons as well as providing food in the communities, granting communities charters to explore cooperative community models. In short, putting power back in the hands of the people and removing it from the cesspool on the Potomac.

The federal government serves some definite purposes, purposes that are clearly outlined in the Constitution. But the seat of power in the US has always been meant to rest in the hands of the people, and we have sadly abdicated the throne.

you must not have been reading genes posts. that is all he calls for is raising taxes.

we dont disagree on that. Some politicians do that for sure. but i am talking about us
not politicians. We can get them to stop their nonsense and run the Gov properly if we concentrate on that and not argue about cutting taxes. The problem is this: these corrupt politicians will get their pork no matter how little money the gov has. let's fix it not starve it.

Thieves never starve .... others do.



it was a temporary provision ... what is the logic of making it permanent? arent we in the middle of a war? dont we have enough debt?

comon Gid. you are a reasonable man .... is it really a good idea to continue that tax cut with things the way you see them now? and who is being affected? the top 1% of the people? we are in a war for God's sake !!!! that doesnt require a return to the origibal tax code not even raising it? if the war doesnt require that, so what does?

This is my point with you Gid. ... good ideas but wrong policies .... I wish you dont swallow what the Right feeds the unawares .... you are better than that.



That is exactly my objectives too. so let's talk about that not about how stupid the dems are, how they are bleeding hearts with no action ..etc of the smoking mirrors that hides deciet and dishonesty.

Do you see any of the Rep candidates talking about that? not a word

ALl three top Dem candidates talk about it .... and what do you do? attack them and support the Rep. .... that surprises me.

non of the dems is talking about raising taxes while all Rep are talking about cutting taxes ... and where do you get the money to support a useless war? eliminate the SS, medicare ...etc. Is that what You support? from what you write , i believe so. please correct me if i am wrong in that.

Now you talking .... but that is not what you always write about. Please keep talking about that.... let's get it right and dont let the deciet and dishonesty divert you from that.

yes i have. but he is not the rest of the people .... let's not allow the extremes to divert our attentions from what has to be done.

you really think I or any working person like to or want to raise taxes????? what kind of thinking is that? i personally wish we can do things with no taxes .... i can and need that extra income. but there are things we hate to do and try to avoid doing them but we know that we have to do them for our own best interest. taxes are on the top of that list .... followed by going to the dentist .... like me going next week and i am thinking about it NOW .... how painful and hateful is that you think? but i have to do it .... taxes are even more painful .... but ... as terrible as it can get they are still a necessity.

so your saying that gene is a no body.

when someone says no one and i really mean no one. that includes the extremes.

you really funny ... Gene is a good man with ideas .... i dont think he likes taxes either. i dont think anyone likes taxes. but you just dont read what he says without bias. you like Bush, he hates Bush and that is the problem between him and most of the gang around here.

I feel sorry for Bush. I dont hate him. but Gene hates him. This doesnt make what he says wrong or gives me or any one the right to distort what he says. I dont agree with him on everything but i dont think he likes or want more taxes.

In any case. When we all discuss anything here, it is a given we are not talking about exteme ideologies. At least i assume that. it is nuts to write things for discussion if it is something that is far out of the main stream thinking.

distort what he says.


the rich can afford to pay more in taxes. how is the distorting


and everyone with a brain knows that the rich don't pay taxes. because they pass it on to their customers.

I disagree as well. But I will go so far as to say SOME who CLAIM to be on the right love it as well. Face it, Money is power. Pure and simple. More money means more power. The reason the left is branded with this narcissism is that they have never met a program they do not like. Even failed ones.