You have missed the distinction between Leadership and Overlordship. Leaders make the Led want to do something on their own without coercion. Overlords make Slaves do what they "know to be right" through Force, Legislation, and Intimidation.


Devices or people performing actions because they are forced are always Slaves and never the Led.



Slaves must be provided for yes. Do you think this proves that the slaves are willing participants?

Just because an overlord performs a set of action which end up followed by desired action from his Slaves doesn't mean that they did it willingly or that it is right simply because the end justified the means.

Yes, to make a Slave do the things you "know are right" you have to put calories down it's throat, motviate it to work (through punishment), and continue to direct it towards your "known" goals. This doesn't make the Slaves into Selfless beings in any way.

Your logic in this regard is utterly fallacious. I am not saying that to be a dick. Action following enorcement/coercement does not equal selflessness at all. It just equals obedience to the folks who beleive that they "know" what the Slaves should do and who have been wiling to take the necessary minimum action to force them to "do the right thing".



Yes, easily. I further legislate my will upon the Slave through corrective action. I punish it by replacing it (killing it and buyign another Slave) or fixing it (beating it until pain makes it do my will). this is rule by legislation. I "know" what is right and I force the Slave to accept it.

You are equating a dead or sick machine to an unhappy human. A dead or sick route would be equivalent to a dead or sick slave. Yes, said dead or sick slave has "resisted" in a limited and meaningless sense.

There is a world of difference between allowing choice versus dealing with the results of a physical malfunction.

The router can get sick or die but it cannot choose to do so or choose to stop working efficiently over philosophical differences or because it is not motivated. It is a Slave.

Any work stoppage or resistance by volition from slaves is punished by death, pain, or other legislated action. This is where you have missed the boat in this part of your response to the analogy.



Yes, utterly. I allow it no will whatsoever. I legislate it's every action.



Actually they still do work. This fact is the genesis of my current position. You can quite easily force systems to work against their function, intent, or even self preservation. If this wasn't the case then Network security simply would never have become a concern.



*My apologies for the long post. If you prefer I can write a response post and edit this down to a link.

I agree with Greywar. Perhaps slavery is not really the correct term since they have no consciousness. But if they cannot be slaves, they also cannot be "selfless". Both imply self awareness that none possess.

My 'call for revolution' was a hypothetical exercise, a 'Friday Five' which asked what it would take, what sort of conditions would have to evolve in order for my fellow citizens to be so motivated.

This is very clear in your article of course. I believe it reflects the feelings of all "frustrated" Americans that something needs to be done to get this country back on track.

My dad was an aerospace engineer for McDonnell Douglas

In short, he drives me NUTS.

You see. It looks absurd to other people and drive them "nuts". But it is the only way to get things "right" from the first time, avoid disasters and major mess-ups. but most of us cant stop doing that when we get home.

My kids keep saying: "dad, this is not engineering". That stops me .... a little. Before we start any project at home, i describe what we have to do and tell the one who is with me in that project what things to watch out for because of safety reasons or for critical-work reasons. but they still think it is just the engineer's absurd way of doing things. I say you could hurt or kill yourself if you dont do that. They say " we know dad.... we know". And I cant count how many times they got in trouble because of that "we know dad .... we know". But as usual, they will never know ..

btw, hope everything goes your way soon.

My apologies for the long post. If you prefer I can write a response post and edit this down to a link.

not at all. We look at it differently. That doesnt mean your comments are not appreciated.

You think the Natural laws are slave to us, i think it is the other way around. We can't go around them. we must obey them to achieve what we want. If you look at any part of any system. It follows those natural laws. We cant force these laws to change.

You look at the fact that we can design the system (or the device) to do anything we want and call that "slavery". that is very true if you call following natural laws "slavery". However, the word "design" implies my point. it implies that "we cant just force things to do what we want", we must "design" the system according to certain laws. from that point on, the systems (and devices) dont argue or refuse to do what they are supposed to do unless those laws are violated.

That is what i meant when i said they are "selfless". if you have two identical parts capable of doing the same things.If you use one as you normal working part and the other as an auto-back-up. The first one doesnt complain that it is working all the time while the other is just sitting there. that is what i meant. they just do what we assign them to do with no complaints or demands other than following the Natural laws. Our design is our desire and that must follow the laws too.

The point was, it is much easier to deal with parts and systems than dealing with "humans" even though humans know what the laws are, what their responsibilities are, what they should and should not do. but most humans dont follow any of that. We are supposed to be smarter than the parts and systems engineers deal with, so how come we dont always use that to our advantage? in fact more often than not we end up doing things that hurt us.

Leaders make the Led want to do something on their own without coercion.

This is very true and it is what we lack nowadays. Leaders who can start revolutionazing people "one voter at a time".

But if they cannot be slaves, they also cannot be "selfless". Both imply self awareness that none possess.

Technically this is very true again.

However, i swear that sometimes i think these systems have "their own mind" . They sure have their own "personality".
I know one thing for sure. You can have the same design, the same installation, the same everything and still have two systems that have two different "personalities". What is That, and how did it materialize, i will never know. I dont think anyone knows either. All we know that two identical systems behave in different ways and they have their own quirks and rhythm. We can look for the reasons until we are blue in the face .... and find nothing. but it is still there.

It is absurd .... we all know that

Only if the ruling elite choose to be responsible. They are perfectly able to choose neglect or abuse as well.

Of course, i was talking technically. That is why they all failed at the end because the abuse and neglect. but they were still responsible for their subjects. they didnt carry that responsibilty. no foreigner will ever care about other people as if they were his own. that is the reason the era of Empires are gone forever. But, amazing as it is, some people still think the USA can be one.

It is a different world now, but some think we can still do it.

However, i swear that sometimes i think these systems have "their own mind"

you are not going to get an argument from me on that!

I always thought that was San Marino, but the point is still valid.

No, he is the former QB for the Miami Dolphins.